Fred Nile and racism

(Obligatory warning: incoherent rant ahead.)

I’ve been watching the flamewar between Simon Rumble and Erik de Castro. It’s quite interesting to see how they both misidentify what’s Christian and what’s not.

Firstly, I am a Christian, a member of a mainstream denomination (Presbyterian), and I oppose Fred Nile’s plan to stop Muslim immigration.

I consider the Catholics to be a group related but separate from Christianity, as they have many differences in core beliefs and misinterpret scripture often. They also believe in justification by works. You can stop criticising Christianity for the Crusades and everything up to the Reformation now.

I also consider Christian militia groups to not really be Christian, although since they’re often connected with Catholicism, well…

I did see a link in one post to the Exclusive Brethren. They’re less Christian than Mormons. They have weird beliefs like not following human laws, in the New Testament the Apostle Paul explicitly states that governments are appointed by God and that as a result Christians must follow the laws of the land as well, unless those laws prohibit the exercise of your faith.

About Fred Nile’s idea of ending Muslim migration, I think there are a few issues:

  • Depending on how you read it, banning Muslim migration could potentially be prohibited by s. 116 of the Commonwealth Constitution. Getting a constitutional amendment to prohibit Muslim migration… well, Australia didn’t go too well with banning Communism back in the 50s and I’m not sure banning Muslims from coming here would go down too well either.
  • As a Christian I think it’s good that Australian Muslims are in a country where Christians can preach freely rather than in the Middle East where they are frequently killed, even by the state.
  • In order to get in to parliament you actually have to win elections. And I don’t think either the Coalition or Labor would support this proposal, since we all support multiculturalism nowadays apparently. And the CDP could very well lose support.
  • And of course it goes against Aussie values of giving everyone a fair go. It would also seriously damage Christianity’s and Australia’s reputation in the Muslim world, and with Muslim countries and Muslim terrorists right on our doorstep…

edit: One thing I do have to agree on: according to ‘real’ (ie. Protestant, non-liberal) Christians Jesus is the Son of God, the Bible is the unchangeable literal Word of God and it is to an extent totalitarian. You do need to remember that the basis of a lot of Western law ultimately comes from Christian beliefs. (I do support separation of church and state however – power corrupts the church, as we saw in the medieval days.)

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6 Responses to Fred Nile and racism

  1. Erik de Castro Lopo says:

    > * Depending on how you read it, banning Muslim migration could potentially be
    > prohibited by s. 116 of the Commonwealth Constitution

    My specific recommendation was banning anyone who would not put the laws of the country above their religion.

    > * As a Christian I think it’s good that Australian Muslims are in a country where
    > Christians can preach freely rather than in the Middle East where they are frequently
    > killed, even by the state.

    Who are you talking about being killed by the state? Muslims or Christians? You do realize don’t you that Christians are persecuted throughout much of the middle east?

    So you think that its good to have Muslims in this country even if in the long term they would like implement Sharia law here and probably also ban preaching by Christians?

  2. ajdlinux says:

    > My specific recommendation was banning anyone who would not put the laws of the country > above their religion.

    Firstly, this was a general comment, not a specific reply to your post 🙂

    I do agree that the state has a right to ban people who will not comply with the laws of the country though.

    > Who are you talking about being killed by the state? Muslims or Christians? You do realize
    > don’t you that Christians are persecuted throughout much of the middle east?

    Sorry for not wording clearly enough, I mean both Christians (mostly missionaries) and Muslims who convert away.

    > So you think that its good to have Muslims in this country even if in the long term they would > like implement Sharia law here and probably also ban preaching by Christians?

    It would be rather difficult to get enough Muslims in here to implement sharia law… our normal (ie. non-religious) immigration controls do keep numbers reasonably low.

    For Sharia law to be implemented here the Muslims would have to first become the majority, and I don’t see that happening.

  3. Erik de Castro Lopo says:

    > For Sharia law to be implemented here the Muslims would have to
    > first become the majority, and I don’t see that happening.

    Nope, won’t happen in a decade or even two. It can happen in a generation or two and I’m not the only one to thing so. Try these:

    “We have fifty million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.”
    — Libyan leader Mu’ammar Al-Qadhafi
    http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1121

    “Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children. Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours.”
    — Norwegian imam Mullah Krekar to the Oslo newspaper Dagbladet in 2006

    Thats what happening in Europe. No its nowhere near that bad here in this country but it also doesn’t mean that a sizable minority which has no hesitation in using violence and intimidation to get what it wants can’t make life difficult for everyone else while they try to get what they want. In particular, sit back and watch the UK and see what happens there over the next decade or so.

  4. ajdlinux says:

    While I see your point, it’s not something that can be addressed by immigration controls anyway. It’s not immigration that is increasing the population, it’s natural births. A discriminatory birth policy is something I definitely don’t want.

  5. Kim Gritten says:

    what is your e- mail , I will send you something interesting to read on Islam in Australia…..regards Kim

  6. ajdlinux says:

    @Kim: I’ve replied to you privately by email.

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